Live and Learn

Sally - an excellent explanation of what makes you tick.  Thank you for sharing.  I hope this blog community respects your view and doesn't attack you with their usual vitriolic comments.

Thank you referee, your words mean a lot to me.

I wholeheartedly approve of this message.

You got my vote.

Sally -

I am SO glad that you are back. This is a very brave post. You do not stand alone.

Sally:  I have enjoyed many of your postings even though your "bleeding heart liberal" always shown through.  I do take issue with some of your comments here.  When you say "you cannot be a Christian in the world today without being a Bleeding Heart Liberal", I hope you are not saying that those of us that are Conservatives can't be Christians.  Because I may be a Conservative, but I consider myself a Christian first.  I also must be a "Bleeding Heart Conservative", because I fit your definition of bleeding heart.  I also have many of the same concerns that you have.  The difference is that I believe strongly that the Democrats are the biggest barrier to accomplishing anything.  Your friends and neighbors that know you could not possibly scorn you for being you.

Sally,

Poor taste, poor judgment, poor research: I am NOT a bleeding heart liberal but am a Baptist Christian and most likely pray and go to Church and believe in God just as much as you if not more.  But I’m a devoted God loving Christian. But what confuses me with your blog is that all the hate I see on this blog site in general (though none from you thank God) comes from the most diehard liberals who are also atheists. May I ask for your explanation with that?

sally, how can you say "you cannot be a Christian in the world today without being a Bleeding Heart Liberal." isn't that what goes against exactly what you say about christianity and liberalism? i take this as an attack directed at me and conservatives. but then you suggest that what you said is not the liberal way. i hope you didn’t write this just so you get comments.

@BillyJ:  I tend to see liberals ANGRY at injustice...and conservatives HATEFUL of dissent...when Bush won in 2000, I was angry at the result, but actually thought, OK, "compassionate conservative", he IS the president, I'm an American, let's give the guy a benefit of a doubt...I will tell you, if Bush had reacted differently to 9/11, I would have supported him...my vote was his to lose.  But what if Gore had won?  I hypothesize that the reaction of conservatives would have been similar to 1992...HATRED of Clinton, and acting to undermine the president from Day 1, irrespective of the fact he was the elected president and everyone deserves that 1 chance to change minds.  So, to paraphrase Monty Python, I poo-poo in your general direction.

Conservative Christian, Liberal Christian, Baptist Christian...it seems Christians come in lots of different flavors. I wonder, what flavor was Jesus?

Jesus was indisputedly a community activist.

And remember that Pontius Pilate, on the other hand, was a governor.

:-)

I don't mean that only christians are bleeding heart liberals. I meant that, to me, christian values implies alignment with what I am calling bleeding-heart liberal values.  There are many good kind decent Republicans out there too. Ed, both liberals and conservatives can act as barriers. Both liberals and conservatives can also act as forces for good. My point is that I disagree with our demonizing one another, calling out an entire category of people and turning them into scapegoats. There are good and bad, corrupt and honest, among every possible category and distinction of man you can make...      

One more thing. I should have said "To me, quite personally, I -- I alone -- talking about me here -- feel I can't be a Chrisitan without being a bleeding-heart liberal."  I am speaking only for myself here. I meant to imply that liberalism is inevitably where MY interpretation of MY christian values leads me. I didn't mean to imply anything for any body else. Sorry that that came out judgmental. I may go back and emend the post.    

Sally - Do not go back and amend your post based on the comments that say you are judgemental.  I think I've read your post 20 times, and not once have I found the place where you say that you cannot be a Christian unless you are a Bleeding Heart liberal.  F&BFOX, when you put something in quotes "~~~~~~~~~", it's not supposed to be your words, but instead the exact words the other person said - hence the term  quote!  "I cannot call myself a Christian WITHOUT being a Bleeding Heart liberal"  Once again those individuals with the most restrictively defined views have choosen to twist your words to suit their own narrow purpose. I have always found it ironic the way people chose to describe the same thing from opposte viewpoints.  When you put people first in your decision making process, if you are a conservative you are called   Compassionate, if you are a liberal, you're a Bleeding Heart.  Different connotations.  Being a liberal does not mean take, take, take and give, give, give any more than being a conservative means mine, mine, mine and do it yourself.  Too many people buy into the stereotype that has been beaten into our heads over the years and forget that the majority of Americans are a blend of Conservative and Liberal ideals based on the issue.

Thank you, Referee. I did emend the post so that my words are less likely to be twisted. But thank you.    

Ref:  Sally's original post said: "you cannot be a Christian in the world today without being a Bleeding Heart Liberal".  Having read enough of her posts, I didn't think she meant to imply that non-liberals could not be Christians, but I just wanted her to clarify it.  I'm sorry, Sally!

Ed/Sally - I didn't realize that posts could be modified and still appear to be the original.  I must have responded to the comments after Sally amended/cleared up her post. Sorry here also. But I still stand by the second part of my comment about the different labels placed on the same philosophies.

Thank you, Sally, for opening up this discussion.  Being called a bleeding heart liberal is generally taken as a negative connotation.  How did that happen?  What happened to the Golden Rule?  Have we forgotten "do unto others as we would have them do unto us"?  Too much me and mine first; you, if there's anything left and me and mine think you are deserving.  Maybe.  

Bravo, Sally!  

Sally, could you please explain the abortion view of the /christian liberals? I don't understand it, not trying to throw darts.

I also don't understand the liberal view of business. The left almost always paints corporations as evil and government as good. Aren't they both made up of people? I see evil in both groups when it comes to greed & power.

As a conservative, I would rather teach a man to hunt (farm), then give him a one time meal. Then he won't be hungry again.

Please help me see where that is uncompassionate or Christian.

Wow -- interesting points. First, I have no idea what the abortion view of christian liberals as a group may be. I am only an individual. I have my personal beliefs on the subject, just as everyone else. I guess I sort of wanted to write the post, becuase I feel like I don't really fit into any "group" of thought. So I was just trying to define for myself. I do know many liberals feel as Hillary CLinton does (and McCain used to) -- that abortion should be safe, legal, and RARE. Others feel that you can be against abortion personally, feel it is wrong and a sin, and yet feel that each woman should have control of making that moral, ethical choice for herself, even if it is a choice that one could never make personally, even if it is a choice one disapproves of. Of course, that position presupposes that you don't consider it murder. It's a tangled, complicated, emotional issue with no one clear way of looking at it.

The view that Liberals are anti-business? Well, I think there are many different kinds of liberals, just as there are conservatives (just as there are people). From those I have known, I can't think of a single one who is or has been anti-business. The kind of liberal atmosphere I was brought up in was an educated intellectual affluent kind. Most liberals I know personally and well, hail back from the east coast where I was raised, and they are well educated and work hard in corporate jobs in big metropolitcan areas. They certainly support big business. That's a type of liberal -- the educated, well-off, idealist, who has strong sense of civic duty, who wants to benefit the greater good -- that one doesn't hear enough about. Instead, all you hear about are the "commies and rabblerousers" mud-slung by Rush Limbaugh etc.

Also, the fallacy that liberals support big government. Let's be honest, government is pretty big right now, isn't it? In fact, it is bigger than ever before in the history of America, correct? With the war, and the homeland security needs . . . and now, deregulation has caused our major banks and insurance companies to fail, so government is all tangled up in bailing out Fannie Mae, Freddi Mac, maybe AIG now too  . . . so government now is huge, and it is all tangled up in interfering with many areas of our lives as Americans. And this big government is, er, none of liberal's doing. In fact, I don't know of a single liberal in favor of this state of affairs! Not that it all can be laid on conservative shoulders either; this country has had a combination of issues that have made for a rough ride the past 8 years.

I agree that it's better to teach a man to fish, -- everyone agrees to this. But teaching fishing costs a little bit, too. It's all about ROI. This is what Clinton intended with Welfare to Work. The program might have had problems, but at least it tried to address "teaching fishing." We need more of such programs -- not less. For the past 8 years, these types of programs have been slashed, and as a result, more Americans have slid into poverty than ever before. This means more unhealthy, undereducated kids than ever before.

It's the children in poverty that really get to me. It's not their fault. They are our next generation of Americans. And, dare I say it, our future taxpayers. Shouldn't we step in as a society and help them out to a halfway decent start? To me, that's not a "handout." That's "teaching to fish." That's money well spent on some "front-loading" to benefit this country as a whole down the line...               

Wow -- Thanks for bringing up so many important points, greenlid. You have made me think. . . .

I would like to start off by saying that it is hard for me to label myself either Republican or Democrat since there are so many problems with both sides.  I would much rather try to work together to come up with some workable solutions.  The problem is that there are so many people hellbent on saying they are one or the other that they lose sight of the real issues.  Ed's comment, "The difference is that I believe strongly that the Democrats are the biggest barrier to accomplishing anything."  Wow.  What a statement.  Frankly, I see Ed's opinion and attitude as the biggest barrier to accomplishing anything.  As do so many people like him.  So much hate and inflexibilty are conveyed through so many of these political blogs.  He claims to be a Christian first but after reading his blogs, there seems to be some doubt in that.  Like I said in the beginning, both parties have huge issues and short fallings.  It's sad that the nation has come to this choosing of sides instead of trying to actually fix things.  People on both sides have themselves in such a Democrat or Republican hating state of mind that they can't see anything else.  But deep down I hope this makes others step back a minute and really evaluate themselves and their outspoken opinions.  You owe it to your children.  To our country.  Quit being a part of the problem and become a part of the solution.  Grow up.

Blogging on the most part here does not seem to be very productive.  More of a bashing type of thing.  I guess one good thing is that there are only a few regulars who are doing it.  Maybe they could meet for coffee each day and discuss there hatred in person.

Sorry Sally.  Liberals give the poor a fish.  Christians conservatives teach the poor to fish.  Liberals focus on the short term, conservatives focus on the long term.  Conservatives provide tough love when necessary, liberals coddle.  Conservatives built the greatest country in the world with grit and determination.  Liberals are destroying the future with cradle-to-grave socialism.  And, conservative Christians are more generous than liberals in almost every measure (except with other peoples' money, of course).  

Of course, there are exceptions to every rule.  Great work on the School Board.

Engineer58: Is there any color in your world?

Engineer 58, Just because you say these things doesn't make them true. You are voicing despicable caricaturish stereotypes that do both parties (and many people) a great disservice. You are missing a lot by living in the black and white only..

"Just because you say these things doesn't make them true"

The same can be said for nearly everything you write:  "raising our infant mortality rates to that of a third-world nation's", "losing their jobs because of this softening economy while corrupt corporations get government bail-outs", "but the evidence is, at best, unclear, and poorly, vaguely explained to us ", etc.  Lets see your DATA.

Here is mine:

philanthropy.com/.../04001101.htm

abcnews.go.com/.../story

"It was not surprising to me that the lil ol' farmer in South Dakota outgave people in San Francisco,"

"It turns out that this idea that liberals give more…is a myth. Of the top 25 states where people give an above average percent of their income, 24 were red states in the last presidential election. "

"conservatives are 18 percent more likely to donate blood. "

...

Oh, and Sally, may I also suggest we limit our attacks to the messages, rather than the messenger.  I'm sure you are a wonderful person and would make a great neighbor and friend.  My assumption is you get your news from mostly left-leaning outlets and hence are well meaning but misguided.  I would recommend you take a look at this article from a left-leaning member of a left-leaning organization:  

www.newsroom.ucla.edu/.../Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx

www.sscnet.ucla.edu/.../Media.Bias.8.htm

(Be sure to look at Figure 2 near the end of the 2nd link.)

Once you get your news from equal sides of the center line for a few years, lets see what happens to your positions on issues.

BTW, this arrived in my email box yesterday.  Its perfectly illustrates the issues of this blog.  I thought I'd share it with you:  

John McCain, Hillary Clinton, and Barak Obama were walking down a Washington DC street when they cam upon a homeless man.  

John McCain gave the man his business card, and told him to come to his office for a job.  He then took $20 out of his pocket and gave it to the man.

Hillary was very impressed, so when they came upon another homeless person, she decided to help. She walked over to him and gave him directions to the welfare office.  She then reached into John McCain's pocket and got out $20.  She kept $15 for her administrative fees and gave the homeless man $5.

When they cam upon yet another homeless person, Barak told him to "have hope … change is coming …" and gave him nothing.

Now, do you understand the difference?

Here is a letter that was in the Lake Country Reporter in response to this post.  I thought it was excellent and needs to be shared.  The writer hit many of the key points I wished to make to this blog.  She said everything quite well:

Go ahead, liberals, bring it on

To the editor,

I am a bleeding heart conservative.

In response to Sally Pal’s recent printed blog, I would like to clarify some points for her and other bleeding heart liberals.

You begin by stating, “I don’t think you understand” why you align with the liberal worldview. We understand; we just disagree.

Where is your “fact that the right-wing worldview scorns and disparages me and my beliefs”? Most of the “right-wingers” I know encourage open discussion; bring it on. Most “lefty liberals” know become angry and condescending when opposing views are expressed.

I am glad you care deeply about others; so do I. But you would use every tool available to help, where I would use every successful tool available and stop throwing money at the tools that keep failing. You may believe in a handout; I believe in a hand up.

Your next point comes across very arrogantly, I have to say: “that you cannot be a Christian in the world today without being a bleeding heart liberal.” I forgive you. I have numerous conservative friends (yes, Christians) that spend a great deal of time (and money) volunteering directly to help others in need, one-on-one and in groups. Where have you been, girl?

Although the media tries to paint their own image for you, helping those in need and caring deeply is not just a liberal thing. If you care so deeply for others, then I am sure at any one of your volunteer activities you can ask around and find out who is conservative.

Your heart “bleeds for this (the war) state of affairs,” but my heart bleeds for the millions of men, women, and children that have no choice but to live under a tyrannical ruler, who are sent to terrorists camps at an early age to learn to kill for Allah, who are forced to leave everything they own and become refugees, who are never given a chance because of abortion, and yes, for the families with sons and daughters that have lost their lives protecting mine, yours, and our great country.

Conservatives don’t like war, but we have learned from history, and without taking action, history will repeat itself.

If you care deeply about others, as you say, then let me ask you this: Do you only care deeply for the “others” that live in Wisconsin? How about the “others” just in America? How can your heart not bleed for the “others” in the world, too? Whose life is more important? I don’t doubt you are sincere, Sally. Because you care so much and seem to want lasting solutions, I actually think you are a Republican. I hope I don’t get scorned by liberals for expressing my beliefs.

Laura Ottusch

I stumbled upon your blog, and this post in particularly by accident. I don't even live anywhere near you, but just wanted to thank you for this post.  You summed up exactly how I feel about being a Christian and a Liberal.

And, to respond to Engineer58: Conservatives say they want to teach a man to fish, but don't actually believe in teaching him, they just assume that if they can fish, other people can, too.  Liberals give the man a fish while wanting *everyone* to have access to the quality education "learning how to fish" so that next time they can fish for themselves.

YOUR interpretation of your Christian values?  Sorry my friend, but the Judeo-Christian God does not recognize "your" interpretation.  He was pretty clear on his message and a self-definition of ones moral code is completely out of line with humble submission to God.  Think about it, and better yet, pray about it.

Also..  when you say that you are "proud" to be a Bleeding Heart Liberal?  Sorry again my sister in Christ, but pride is a sin.  Lucifer's 2 main sins against God were Blasphemy and Pride.  Any form of feeling or emotion centered around pride (vanity & ego) are the opposite of humility and surrender to the Holy Spirit which is the basic teaching of Christ.

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