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The Hypatian Shore

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no substitute for a good blaster at your side." Han Solo

Conservative Unease of Mixing Church & Politics

By MC Pickard
Thursday, Aug 21 2008, 07:22 PM

I forget who, but one of the bloggers I read daily made the observation that the great ironies of this election that there is a Democrat who is all too willing to talk and demonstrate his faith, and a Republican who is less likely to talk about his religion.

That's a big shift since the last Presidential election, and which leverages this atheist and secularist in a goofy position voting for Obama. Oh well...

Anyway, a new Pew poll on religion in politics today shows more Americans questions the role of religion in secular politics:

That significant shift in conservative thought has brought the country to a tipping point on the question: a slim majority of Americans — 52 percent — now think churches should keep out of politics.

That's an eight percentage point increase over 2004 and the first time a majority of Americans has held that opinion since Pew officials started asking the question 12 years ago.

On this question, the gap between conservatives and liberals is narrowing: just four years ago, liberals were twice as likely as conservatives to say churches should stay out of politics. Now, 50 percent of conservatives and 57 percent of liberals think that. Four years ago, 62 percent of liberals opposed church involvement in politics. Democrats and Republicans are about even on the question, as well.

From this secularist's perspective – this is encouraging. It is nice to see this element of Conservatism re-assert itself.

(Ap Story) | (Pew Poll)

Comments

Jeff Blackwell   

I agree that religion should be kept out of government, but I don't think that should mean that preachers/ministers can't talk about issues that are at stake in an election. That's just freedom of speech.

When religion and politics mix BOTH are contaminated. Who wants the government dictating what they must believe?

August 21, 2008 8:05 PM

MC Pickard   

I don't know Jeff. With freedom of speech issues aside, I wish churches would stick to the business of churching, and government; politicians stick to the bureaucracy and regulate as little or a necessary as possible.

However, "complete separation" I know is not possible. Churches can not just focus on God, because most people believe in an active, interventionist God who answers prayers or is just "with" you. It's therefore, coherent given that presumption.

We disagree on this. IMO, government is about earthly concerns. Churches and non-materialist spirituality's sphere of influence and concern is on non-earthly concerns - the metaphysics and the after life.

August 22, 2008 7:48 AM

Jim Hayett   

MC...you never asked me? Is that because I'm not a conservative?

August 22, 2008 8:13 AM

MC Pickard   

@Jim: I never asked you Jim, because labels aside - I do not know the specifics of what a possible answer from you would be. I don't presume. Depending on the situation, people are can be "liberal" or "conservative". I side with conservatives on some issues, and on others I do not.

My criticism of you has been that you're not a centrist. A centrist does not frame his arguments the way you do. I had asked once, from you, what a centrist is. I wanted criteria to judge against my criteria. For the record, I'm not sure that label, centrist can be applied coherently. When it comes to how we decide issues grounded in our values, we usually make a dichotomy - for/against, evil/good, black/white, etc. I don't think a centrist, as I understand the person, can subscribe to both sides of an issue. For instance, gay marriage.

The language and label of centricism is that of an appeal to the majority - that baseline can shift to left or to right.

I am more interested in the merits of a proposition. If it seems viable - Use it. If it does not work - fix it. If can not be fixed - abandon it. Partisanship aside. With a democracy, we can experiment to see what works. Just don't break what works.

Anyway, how would you like to answer the question? Feel free to post your thoughts.

August 22, 2008 8:52 AM

LiberalHammer   

MC & Jim - I see centrism as a person in the middle of Liberal and Conservative, democrat and republican in political terms only.

August 22, 2008 5:05 PM

Jim Hayett   

MC…again, not knowing Jesus makes it hard for you to understand the definition of this amendment. These words speak loudly for those that know God and Jesus.  But it’s what the liberals have done to this amendment that is the tragedy. Read it for yourself:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

August 22, 2008 7:34 PM

MC Pickard   

@Jim 1) You state "not knowing Jesus makes it hard for you to understand the definition of this amendment." What? What does this have to with the TREND of conservative Christians tiring of the conflating of religion into politics?

It's hard to have a conversation with someone who refuses to sit back and comprehed the post.

Secondly, why is it necessary for me to know Jesus to understand the 1st? Did Jesus write it? Well? Your comment is completely irrelevant and not remotely on topic.

But, I guess that's my fault. I did ask you your thoughts....

August 23, 2008 10:50 AM

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About MC Pickard

Primary interest is where religion intersects with the state, issues like evolution, creationism, science, and gay marriage. I am passionate about science, reason and believing in as many true thing as possible. I am critical of religion, skeptical of woo in general. My tertiary interests include city and urban development, art, design, weightlifting, and I can not get enough of Brewers or Packers coverage. I've also been an ordained Minister with the ULC since 5/2007.

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